New York Times article about Michael Moore award winning movie
Fahrenheit 9/11: Frank Rich (NY Times): Michael Moore’s Candid Camera.
Of course, Mr. Moore is being selective in what he chooses to include in his movie; he’s a polemicist, not a journalist. But he implicitly raises the issue that much of what we’ve seen elsewhere during this war, often under the label of “news,” has been just as subjectively edited. Perhaps the most damning sequence in “Fahrenheit 9/11” is the one showing American troops as they ridicule hooded detainees in a holding pen near Samara, Iraq, in December 2003. A male soldier touches the erection of a prisoner lying on a stretcher underneath a blanket, an intimation of the sexual humiliations that were happening at Abu Ghraib at that same time. Besides adding further corroboration to Seymour Hersh’s report that the top command has sanctioned a culture of abuse not confined to a single prison or a single company or seven guards, this video raises another question: why didn’t we see any of this on American TV before “60 Minutes II”?
Interesting to note the difference in coverage of the awards given the movie in Cannes in the US and here in Norway. While the US coverage seems to label the movie as “Anti-bush”, the norwegian coverage talks about the movie as critical to the war and the U.S. administration.
[Via Dan Gillmor]
Yes, it’s weird to me as an ex Pat Brit now living in California. I feel like I’m on a different planet to both Blair and Bush and their governments. Heaven knows what the motivation was behind invading Iraq but I know one thing, it had nothing to do with helping the Iraqi people.
Unfortunately Moore’s credibility went out the window with his previous missives. It’s amazing that folks give so much credence to his work and yet turn a blind eye to the litany of Moore deceptions that are a matter of public record. His documentaries are closer to Spinal Tap in their accuracy — at least Spinal Tap was funny.
Geoff, I’d find it much more itneresting if you could acctualy substain your alligations with references and facts. While I think Michael is one of the worst ranters in his books and the books in many cases lack references to sources – I still haven’t caught him in deception.
Jarle, there are a lot of sites out there, which accuse Michael Moore of deception, so far I collected:
I’m personally not anti-Moore, and I didn’t read all the sites above (also I’m planning to do it as soon as I find the time). It’s just that you always can put anything one way or another.
That’s just a list of URLs — no facts that i can read.
Get a grip on reality, folks, you f***ed up big time.
Michael, the first site don’t work. The second is full of incorrect information, the third is a hate site that is just attacking Moore (and other Democrats) as being stupid etc. Most of the other sites seem on par with the first three by their domain names.
I would love to be told about a site that actually shows with FACTS where Michael is wrong – instead of just making statements that he is.
To me they all seem like they are on the level with the Pabaah movement. (“Patriotic Americans Boycotting Anti-American Hollywood”) – Ref: http://weblog.bergersen.net/archives/000714.html
I like Moore, but he has an agenda. People who have an agenda should always be taken with a grain of salt, but no matter what you think of Moore, he has raised some very important questions and made a lot of people wake up. That’s a good thing.
However, I was dissapointed when he had to admit on cnn that he had been lying when he said he didn’t know that Disney would not agree to distribute his movie. Disney made it clear from the start that even though they were contractually obliged to fund it, they would under no circumstances distribute it. It was all a publicity stunt pulled by Moore.
Jarle, as I said, I have not (yet) read this stuff, also some of the sites seam indeed to explain extensively where (they) think he as lied. Of course, it is not said that this is the truth. How can you ever know?
In the end, it’s just that I agree with most of Moore’s points of views – that’s the only way can judge myself finally.
Elf, I’m interested in that – is there any information about that online?
You can find it here:
I think Elf says it all. I also read the 3rd from last url called Bowling for Truth and it has some pretty damning evidence that Mr Moore is playing fast and loose with his “facts” at least in regards to Bowling for Columbine. I think you should read that Jarle.
Roy, of course I am reading it. I have never looked at Michael as “the definitive source” for anything. He is good at creating controversy and putting focus where it should be.
I haven’t been able to read the Independent story, but I have been reading about Michael Moore and his alleged “easy way” with the truth. If it is true, I think its something he should work on – its important to have the facts straight.
That said, just because someone accuses him of lies does not mean he is a liar. Remember there are many agendas here, and accusations of wrongdoings against people that dare to speak up is something the sitting government in the US knows how to do.
Sorry Jarle, I assuumed you hadn’t read it because you said you were looking for facts. The author of that site seems to have relevant facts. I do agree that Mr Moore is an excellent spin artist but not a documentary maker. I find them as entertaining as any other work of fiction. I think that any goverment knows how to take care of people that speak out against them. When they decide to use those sneaky tactics is what we need to watch for. Misinformation is a wonderful political tool and seems to be used by Hollywood also.
Roy, let me just clarify something. I don’t care for lies – no matter who tells them. But in my world a President/Prime minister/person in power should be MUCH more vigilant to avoid lies and deception that the average Joe. The more power you have, the more you should avoid deception. IMHO.
It seems to me like its the other way around. The spin-doctors employed by todays politicians and “powers-that-be” makes me sick.
I agree with all you said. People in authority should be held to a higher standard. Much in the same way commercial transportation operators shouldnt be drunk or on drugs when they are working. They are responsible for more then just themselves. The same applies to authority figures. I also would rather hear the ugly truth then a beautiful lie. IMHO(I had to look up that acronym:)
More on-topic: http://www.fahrenheit911.com/trailer/
Seems a few here worship Moore… thinks he makes “documentaries” and puts focus where it should be…
If only that were true. His art is deception, and his facts are easy to check. Anyone can do it. I started to check some of the ‘facts’ presented in Bowling for Columbine… and almost every statement, point or depection made in the film relies on substantial distortion, misdirection, or a lie. All I suggest is that you start checking yourself.
Here is a start: From ‘bowling’ Moore claims of a B-52 memorial at the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs says:
“The plaque underneath it proudly proclaims that this plane killed Vietnamese people on Christmas Eve 1972.”
What does it REALLY say?:
“Dedicated to the men and women of the Strategic Air Command who flew and maintained the B-52D throughout its 26 year history in the command. Aircraft 55,003, with over 15,000 flying hours, is one of two B-52’s credited with a confirmed MIG kill during the Vietnam conflict.
Flying out of Utapao Royal Thai Naval Airfield in southeast Thailand, the crew of “Diamond Lil” shot down a MIG northeast of Hanoi during “Linebacker II” action on Christmas eve 1972.”
My point about Moore: If Moores’ positions DEPEND on lies and distortion to get people to see things his way… what does that say about the vaildity of his views at all?
What does that say about his fans?
Real documentaries NEVER have to stoop to the level that Moore does. Truth does not need fabrication.
All the best,
Jarle is the type of person who believes everything he reads and hears; he refuses to do any research…something I noticed about many Norwegians on my recent visit to Norway. If Aftenposten prints it or NRK says it then it must be true!!!
While JD is an american that only watches Fox News? You should know better than to generalize JD, and I would also be more impressed with your criticism if you had the guts to use your name, instead of hiding behind an anonymous nick name.
JD is my name and not a nickname. I don’t subscribe to FOX news…it’s hilarious that a relatively small news channel (compared to CNN, CBS, NBC, and ABC) is getting everybody’s underwear in such a twist. I get the vast majority of my news from many internet sources. Nowadays there is no reason not to have a very informed and rational opinion on issues considering that the world is at our fingertips with a a few keystrokes. I read both sides of stories…YOU DO NOT…and you obviously do very little research. After reading/hearing Michael Moore why don’t you read a counter opinion to get some balance? Independent of your Canadian…ahem, North American…wife’s opinion.
You know what JD, your whole post stinks of prejudicem and ignorance. How do you know what sources I read/watch/listen to and what forms my thoughts of current events, and what makes you think that my wife would be the one forming my opinions?
So far it seem like it is you that lacks the ability to set aside your prejudism about people from other parts of the world than your own close neighbourhood.
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